Liam Conner
The following is a transcript of an interview with Senator Tom Cotton, Republican of Arkansas, that aired on May 12, 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And now we’re back with Arkansas Republican Senator Tom Cotton. Senator, welcome back to the program.
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You just heard Secretary Blinken explain the administration’s policy. He says that Hamas does not comply with international law at all and that Israel is inconsistent with international humanitarian law. But he stopped short of saying they were violating arms-sharing agreements. Does this make sense to you?
SEN. COTTON: No, it doesn’t make any sense, Margaret, it sounds like a lot of evasive, foul-mouthed politics. He said it’s a “reasonable assessment”, he said it three or four times, it’s like he was trained to say it, like it was a magical talisman to help them walk the political line they want among the pro-Hamas wing of his party and the vast pro-Israel majority of the American people. The report they released on Friday night, after news deadlines passed, was very clear. There is no evidence that Israel is violating international law. All civilian casualties in Gaza are the sole responsibility of Hamas. In fact, Israel is probably doing more than any military in history to avoid civilian casualties.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, actually, it says, the U.S. intelligence community notes that security forces in Israel have “inflicted harm on civilians in military or security operations, potentially using U.S.-supplied equipment.” The US assesses that Israel “could do more to prevent harm to civilians”. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t doing it. It says they can’t, for some reason, come to a clear conclusion…
SEN. COTTON: It says – Secretary Blinken himself – no, Secretary Blinken’s own report says that there is no evidence, that they cannot reach that conclusion. Ben Cardin, the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, agrees that the report claims there is no evidence. In fact, he also says that Joe Biden was wrong to impose this de facto arms embargo on Israel. Once again, Israel is doing more than any military in history, in all likelihood, to avoid civilian casualties. If Hamas didn’t hide behind and under the civilians, there would be no – there would be no civilian casualties. In fact, if Hamas simply surrendered and handed over all these hostages, there would be no more civil suffering in Gaza.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s what President Biden also says. But I mean, I know you’re a lawyer, you studied law at Harvard, you were an army officer, you were deployed to Iraq, you were deployed to Afghanistan. You should be worried when the Israeli Prime Minister himself says they killed more civilians than terrorists. Thousands more civilians than terrorists.
SEN. COTTON: I am deeply concerned that Hamas is using these civilians as human shields, because that is their strategy. Remember, Margaret, remember…
MARGARET BRENNAN: So should the United States, but, but to that point, because the United States supplies billions of dollars worth of weapons to Israel, should it have a say in how those weapons are used? Because the needle that Blinken seemed to be trying to thread here was to say that it was tailored very specifically in terms of retaining these big bombs, the 3,500 bombs.
SEN. COTTON: Well, the reason Israel needs these bigger bombs is because Hamas has buried tunnels, or holds hostages, and where its leaders are hiding, deep underground. They are also potentially delaying kits that allow so-called dumb bombs to become precision smart bombs.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The JDAM kits that they’re looking at.
SEN. COTTON: And- and apparently- and apparently based on reports this morning, the administration even says it is withholding information on the location of senior Hamas leaders and therefore hostages, to include potentially American hostages, from Israel, to try to force Israel not to enter Rafah. Think about it, they are–
MARGARET BRENNAN: The White House denies this, and John Kirby reported the other day that the US is sharing intelligence, including the location of Yahya Sinwar, who has not been killed in the seven months of this war.
SEN. COTTON: I was at the Washington Post with four staffers familiar with the matter. The Washington Post is like a message board for this administration and the Democratic Party.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you believe the intelligence community is withholding information from the Israeli military?
(TRANSTALK)
SEN. COTTON: I- I believe- I believe Joe Biden is willing to do that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you have any evidence of that?
SEN. COTTON: I mean, he imposed – he imposed a de facto arms embargo on Israel and sanctions on Israelis. About that–
MARGARET BRENNAN: They’re sending weapons this weekend, this is not an arms embargo.
SEN. COTTON: Meanwhile, he said last week that he will not send offensive weapons. We have no idea what he will retain.
(END OF CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: He- that was, as- as we just exchanged with- with Secretary Blinken, a not very clear statement in that CNN interview. Democrats said so. But what Blinken said was that it was just a single shipment. Are you saying you don’t believe the Secretary of State when he says that?
SEN. COTTON: Margaret, in March 2022, Tony Blinken appeared on his show, on this very show, and said that the United States would be perfectly fine if it saw fighter jets sent to Ukraine. Joe Biden immediately reversed Tony Blinken’s statement on this program. Therefore, what Tony Blinken says on this program cannot be believed when Joe Biden is out there imposing a de facto arms embargo on Israel, while also letting the arms embargo on Iran expire.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You know, $26 billion in emergency funding was just approved by the President. And there is no arms embargo on Israel and there is no blockade on sharing information with Israel. You know it.
SEN. COTTON: Joe Biden said last week that he will stop supplying offensive weapons that can be used in urban environments. This is the only setting–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –If they go to Rafah–
SEN. COTTON: –In Gaza. This is the only scenario in Gaza. And they have to go to Rafah. Joe Biden’s position is in fact in favor of Hamas’ victory at this moment. Israel’s goal is to destroy Hamas, which committed the worst atrocity against Jews since World War II. Hamas’ goal is to survive. If they do – if Israel does not enter Rafah and destroy Hamas in Rafah, Hamas will survive.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, the Biden administration says they can go to Rafah, that’s how they do it. But I- I want to ask more broadly because people like Senator Van Hollen, who will be here, we will talk about the principle and the spirit and the meaning of U.S. law. And you know that previous presidents withheld military aid to Israel to force changes in behavior. President Reagan did this. President Bush did this. Why do you have a problem with President Biden doing this?
SEN. COTTON: Well, first, when he talked about the principle and the spirit of U.S. law, it seems to me that they’re not talking about the letter of U.S. law, because Tony Blinken’s own report concluded that they didn’t break the law. from the USA . Ronald Reagan’s decision to suspend fighter jet deliveries in the 1980s was totally different from what happens here – what happened here. Israel is fighting a war of survival against a terrorist group that has committed the worst atrocity against Jews since World War II. In the 1980s, an Israeli ambassador was targeted for assassination. Ronald Reagan knew that the fighter pause would not interfere with Israel’s fighting because they had many fighters. He didn’t pause the ammunition. Joe Biden is not sending ammunition into the middle of a shooting war, it is a war of survival. And look at the broader context. Israel knew that Ronald Reagan had his back in the region, he sank half of Iran’s navy. Joe Biden has consistently given Iran hundreds of billions of dollars in sanctions relief that financed exactly groups like Hamas and Hezbollah.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And you know they dispute that and they’re still sending weapons. But last month, Donald Trump told TIME magazine: “Bibi Netanyahu was rightly criticized for what happened on October 7th.” Do you agree with this assessment? Are you comfortable with any criticism of the Prime Minister?
SEN. COTTON: Well, I… I think Prime Minister Netanyahu and other high-ranking Israeli leaders have recognized that they are responsible for the failures of October 7th. And they said, as is the Israeli custom, when this war is over, there will probably be a commission of inquiry to find out exactly what went wrong and make sure it doesn’t happen again. But President Trump said last night that he would absolutely provide Israel with the weapons it needs to finish the job. This would never have happened under President Trump-Trump, it didn’t happen under his watch. And if he were president, this war would probably already be over, with much less civilian suffering in Gaza, because he would have supported Israel to the fullest from the beginning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, that’s a debate about counterfactuals for another day, Senator, but it’s good to have you here in person. Thank’s for your time. We’re back.
